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General => Racing - News, Views, Courses, Uplifts and Updates => Topic started by: The Bolt on Aug 26, 2014, 20:16

Title: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: The Bolt on Aug 26, 2014, 20:16
There have been some discussions recently about the introduction of full face helmets as a compulsory requirement for Enduro events.

As a BC commission member myself and about 7 others will meet next week and if the topic arises and we want some facts and figures on opinion then here is your chance to have your say.

Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: Betsie on Aug 26, 2014, 20:37
As it is enduro.  I am sure that a minimum stage length that ensures enduro is just not dh under a different guise is more appropriate.
Minimum track length per stage
Minimum climb length per stage
Minimum overall event length.

Just seems that enduro is dh from the late 90's where you pedal up..
Same tyres, same travel on many bikes and better geometry,  suspension,  wider bars, single ring and chain device, and potentially full face helmets only.

At what point is enduro, late 90's dh on multiple tracks, with worse timing and a pedal up?

Just a thought.
Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: Kimbers on Aug 27, 2014, 10:49
well theres a lot of confusion over on the UKGE facebook page!

one of the issues is that at the moment BC regulations just say you have to have a full face helmet for DH, but they dont give a minimum standard beyond the general BC ones
SNELL B95 ,
AUS/NZS 2063:96 ,
 DIN 33-954 ,
CPSC
EN 1078

none of which require a chinbar and i dont think they even test the chinbar if there is one present
the snell b95 one says that any detachable part (like the removable chin guard on the new Bel 2R) mustnt cause further injury
only the ASTM F1952 cert tests the chin bar if there is one

what this means is that the new Met Parachute has the same safety certification as a Troy Lee D3, even though the D3 seems much tougher

so at the moment if uk enduros go full face you can wear any helmet as long as its got a chinguard as they will have all passed the basic standard that BC requires
Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: ScottFitz on Aug 27, 2014, 12:45
Bolt:

Maybe BC should attend some enduro races.
They will see at a national level event 70-80% of riders in open face helmets.
If you go to a local/grassroots race you will see 95%-100% in open face helmets.

At national level I don't think it will make a difference, we love it and will race whatever the helmet rule.
But at a local level it could really put off new riders. Having to spend out £100+ just to try out a race format.

BC should look at all levels of racing not just the UKGE.
Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: SiPaton on Aug 28, 2014, 12:37
Save your pennies now guys and girls. the Full Face is coming..
Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: ScottFitz on Aug 28, 2014, 14:23
Quote
Save your pennies now guys and girls. the Full Face is coming..
If that's true its yet another reason race organisers will be forced not to use BC and have to look for other alternatives.
Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: Anoobis on Aug 29, 2014, 11:48
It's a tricky one.
Yes: UKGE Dyfi down those moto whoops and Innerleithen riding the dh tracks with a lot of pushing up. 
No: the royal pain in the ass of carrying round 2 helmets. And wearing full face for trail centre riding and pedal fests like some Afan stages? That's stupid. 
Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: [Al] on Aug 29, 2014, 11:59
Maybe BC should attend some enduro races.
They will see at a national level event 70-80% of riders in open face helmets.
If you go to a local/grassroots race you will see 95%-100% in open face helmets.

BC should look at all levels of racing not just the UKGE.
Err, the Gravity Commission is comprised of people who organise, run and participate at events at all levels. The trouble is you can't have one set of rules for one organiser/event and another set for a different organiser/event. Insurance companies also don't give a s**t (and for those that say its easy to get insurance outside of BC, yes it is ATM, but once you start making claims it won't be). You also have to look beyond individual events and look at the development of the discipline overall. Levels of events feeding into higher levels, better event standard expectations for riders, better understanding of rules/regs for riders and organisers, etc etc. BC can't take a standalone event view, it has to look broad spectrum.
Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: ScottFitz on Aug 29, 2014, 13:13
As I said it won't make a difference to me I have a FF helmet and if its in the rules I will race in it.

Just hope I won't put off new riders to the discipline which could make it hard for local grassroots races to operate.
Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: Parr on Oct 07, 2014, 14:57
The Full face helmet rule on stages, will be compulsory in 2015.
We are still looking at wording for this rule, if 2 piece full faces are found not to meet reg's, they won't be allowed.
If you go and race an Enduro in Europe Full faces are usually compulsory there.
It is all part of the development within the discipline in the UK.
On a personal note, I'm not a fan of the 2 piece helmet, so if it comes down to race organisers they won't be allowed at UKGE.
Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: Anoobis on Oct 07, 2014, 15:51
Can we expect some more european like stages then? I wholeheartedly understand and agree with some rounds and stages (Inners! Dyfi etc) but it'll be crap using a full face to ride the graveyard stage at Afan.
Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: Banana on Oct 07, 2014, 16:16
If you're insisting on taking the choice away from riders (which is a separate issue) then you better start finding some better tracks to race on.

Afan in a Full Face?

I expect a whole lot more people will be racing regional events, all of whom seem to manage to be able to be capable of finding other insurers who don't insist on silly rules such as this.

Having raced a number of EWS's this year, and other European Enduro's on the event's that also insisted this rule it is a big pain in the arse having to carry two helmets (and the separate safety issue of having to strap one onto your bag on your back for the way back down).

The EWS seems to be able to exist without the help of the UCI, why does the UKGE series need the involvement of BC? It doesn't bring anything to the event - how the events develop are driven by how much effort the organisation team want to put in.

Potentially going down a silly road here, what next, knees, elbows, arms & back protection? Might as well go & race DH again.

It would seem this is a rule that very few want. Choice should be the key.
Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: Ben Pinnick on Oct 07, 2014, 16:38
Im of the opinion that its not justified to have a FF on the current courses. Having tried a quali with a FF, I found it a total PITA. So for me its either - Met Parachute/2R/something else, or no racing. Im not keen on risking trashing 2 helmets in a crash rather than just 1! I suspect I'm way more likely to destroy the helmet on my pack (and probably the pack too) if I crash with one on my back, and the chances of me running a 'proper' full face for the whole race on its own is zero.
Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: KiwiDave on Oct 07, 2014, 21:16
I would personally prefer choice, and I agree with comments about carrying a second helmet, but  some people are exaggerating how bad it is. I used FF on 2 UKGE rounds this year and lived to tell the tale.
I would not be happy,  however, to go FF at a mini endure type event.
Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: Part time on Oct 08, 2014, 07:21
It's purely to stop people wearing goggles and open face helmets, they are the ones to blame here.
Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: tabletopmedia on Oct 08, 2014, 10:17
The Full face helmet rule on stages, will be compulsory in 2015.
We are still looking at wording for this rule, if 2 piece full faces are found not to meet reg's, they won't be allowed.
If you go and race an Enduro in Europe Full faces are usually compulsory there.
It is all part of the development within the discipline in the UK.
On a personal note, I'm not a fan of the 2 piece helmet, so if it comes down to race organisers they won't be allowed at UKGE.

Is there somewhere I can find this on an official site? Tried navigating BC, gave up after nearly losing the will to live ... :-)
Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: KiwiDave on Oct 08, 2014, 12:42
You might have to wait until November for the "official site" notice as tey are still working through which specific certification/standards will be applicable
Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: banana on Oct 08, 2014, 15:28
The Full face helmet rule on stages, will be compulsory in 2015.
We are still looking at wording for this rule, if 2 piece full faces are found not to meet reg's, they won't be allowed.
If you go and race an Enduro in Europe Full faces are usually compulsory there.
It is all part of the development within the discipline in the UK.
On a personal note, I'm not a fan of the 2 piece helmet, so if it comes down to race organisers they won't be allowed at UKGE.

Is there somewhere I can find this on an official site? Tried navigating BC, gave up after nearly losing the will to live ... :-)

No - having followed the post on Facebook it's not an official British Cycling thing, its a Steve Parr wanting it to be official thing, so lobbying British Cycling for it.

Although there seems to be a long discussion on Singletrackworld about it too, and some kind of British Cycling rep referring to no British Cycling involvement in Enduro next year?

I then noticed another organiser suggesting they won't be forcing FF lids on riders in their races.

So, all in, it looks like a crock of sh1t.
Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: Parr on Oct 08, 2014, 15:41
Banana or who ever you are hiding behind the name??
Its not "a Steve Parr wanting it to be official thing, so lobbying British Cycling for it" its going to be a BC rule and I'm just giving our Customers a heads up before it becomes official.
That OK with You?
Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: tabletopmedia on Oct 08, 2014, 16:02
Thanks all - Parr, would you be able to advise roughly when this will be "out" as official? Was the post about it being November about right then? Cheers again 
Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: Parr on Oct 18, 2014, 18:58
Hopefully give everyone an update after next week
Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: G.R.F. on Oct 22, 2014, 20:33
I've voted that it should be rider choice, I thought Enduro was all about simulating the sort of ride we choose to do for fun and not many of us do that wearing Full face particularly with climbs chucked in. Anyway if it happens, as luck would have it, we got left with loads of KALI Avatars we're chinning out cheap on our website at half price (http://www.edgeactionsports.co.uk/collections/pads-and-helmets.)


Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: [Rob] on Oct 24, 2014, 11:32
And on even bigger news....

http://ride.io/news/british-cycling-drop-enduro/
Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: KiwiDave on Oct 24, 2014, 13:07
Hope the decision is not influenced by BC in anyway, since they are not interested in Enduro
Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: Yidwann on Oct 24, 2014, 13:21
Well they have come to the fore now with that interest...... and dropped it Dave. Enduro is no longer supported by BC
Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: [Rob] on Oct 30, 2014, 15:59
Death to Enduro?

http://ride.io/videos/death-enduro/
Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: Parr on Nov 06, 2014, 20:32
Enduro will unite and come back stronger without BC involvement.
The futures bright the futures Gravity Enduro!
Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: scott fitz on Nov 21, 2014, 07:06
Enduro will unite and come back stronger without BC involvement.
The futures bright the futures Gravity Enduro!
This is one thing I 100% agree with Mr Parr. The shackles are off, lets innovate not replicate.
Title: Re: Full face / Open face helmets at Enduros poll
Post by: [Rob] on Dec 09, 2014, 16:13
So for UK Gravity Enduro Series at least, a decision has been made!

From Steve Parr (UKGE Organiser):
“A helmet with either a fixed or removable chin piece will be mandatory on all stages, Saturday and Sunday, at UKGE.”

http://wideopenmag.co.uk/news/24790/uk-gravity-enduro-2015-all-helmets-require-chin-pieces