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Author Topic: Cotic Rocket!  (Read 8076 times)

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59ttp

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Re: Cotic Rocket!
« Reply #15 on: Feb 20, 2012, 18:17 »
Quote
I thought the point with steel was that it wasn't so stiff, the compliance being the thing that gave it better feel?

Steel is much stiffer than aluminium. The "steel feel" is basically a placebo effect - its true, certain frames do have it (the cotic soul is one)

But Ive read peoples posts on forums claiming that Cotic BFes, DMR Trailstars, ON One SS's etc. etc. are nice comfy frames - b*lls**t. A 6lbs steel frame isn't any different in terms of comfort to a stiff aluminium frame. They're probably just running there tyres softer than usual.

Pete..

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Re: Cotic Rocket!
« Reply #16 on: Feb 20, 2012, 18:52 »
gorgious!
would glady sell my trance for it

Dango

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Re: Cotic Rocket!
« Reply #17 on: Feb 20, 2012, 18:53 »
Quote
I thought the point with steel was that it wasn't so stiff, the compliance being the thing that gave it better feel?

Steel is much stiffer than aluminium. The "steel feel" is basically a placebo effect - its true, certain frames do have it (the cotic soul is one)

But Ive read peoples posts on forums claiming that Cotic BFes, DMR Trailstars, ON One SS's etc. etc. are nice comfy frames - b*lls**t. A 6lbs steel frame isn't any different in terms of comfort to a stiff aluminium frame. They're probably just running there tyres softer than usual.

 ;D he's probably right

ilovedirt99

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Re: Cotic Rocket!
« Reply #18 on: Feb 20, 2012, 19:03 »
Quote
I thought the point with steel was that it wasn't so stiff, the compliance being the thing that gave it better feel?

Steel is much stiffer than aluminium. The "steel feel" is basically a placebo effect - its true, certain frames do have it (the cotic soul is one)

But Ive read peoples posts on forums claiming that Cotic BFes, DMR Trailstars, ON One SS's etc. etc. are nice comfy frames - b*lls**t. A 6lbs steel frame isn't any different in terms of comfort to a stiff aluminium frame. They're probably just running there tyres softer than usual.

 ;D he's probably right
Glad I'm not the only one that can't tell the difference between a steel and alu hardtail....

gridds

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Re: Cotic Rocket!
« Reply #19 on: Feb 20, 2012, 20:09 »
My personal opinion is that it looks bloody awesome!!

A 150mm trail bike with sick geometry, made of the incredible Reynolds 853 steel, by Cotic? Yes f**king please!!

And it looks amazing!!


Alex @ Racersguild

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Re: Cotic Rocket!
« Reply #20 on: Feb 20, 2012, 20:31 »
I'm sorry Gridds, but every time I read the topic title, my gin addled brain rearranges the letters to "Cock Rocket".
I'm not sure I could ride a bike that said c**k rocket on it every time I had a pint.

[ego polishing/meta-justification]Nice bike though, good purchase[/]

Londoner

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Re: Cotic Rocket!
« Reply #21 on: Feb 20, 2012, 21:25 »
My personal opinion is that it looks bloody awesome!!

A 150mm trail bike with sick geometry, made of the incredible Reynolds 853 steel, by Cotic? Yes f**king please!!

And it looks amazing!!


got to admit the bike does look good  :)

and the Reynolds tubesets are simply awesome

even the basic Reynolds 520 on my BMX (520 is a licensed Taiwan version of the legendary Reynolds 531 tubing) has a great "feel" compared to the generic 4130 cromo that is normally used in the same tube diameters



953, a specially developed martensitic-aging stainless steel alloy that can achieve tensile strength in excess of 2000 MPa, with a strength-to-weight ratio that can take on the best in the world.



we get a fair number of new mountain bike hardtails and road / touring bikes through our workshop with 853 and the even rarer 953 tubeset, and they always get special "attention" from the mechanics involving a longer than usual test ride after the mandatory PDI

gridds

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Re: Cotic Rocket!
« Reply #22 on: Feb 20, 2012, 21:34 »
Yeah 953 is a pretty awesome steel, I've heard some frame builders say it can be a pain to build/weld with because the tube walls are so thin!
853 on the other hand is ideal and makes seriously nice riding bikes. A frame builder and bike riders favourite indeed.
I speak from experience.

I'd be well up for a test ride one of these beauties.

AlexKeane

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Re: Cotic Rocket!
« Reply #23 on: Feb 20, 2012, 21:56 »
Quote
I thought the point with steel was that it wasn't so stiff, the compliance being the thing that gave it better feel?

Steel is much stiffer than aluminium. The "steel feel" is basically a placebo effect - its true, certain frames do have it (the cotic soul is one)

But Ive read peoples posts on forums claiming that Cotic BFes, DMR Trailstars, ON One SS's etc. etc. are nice comfy frames - b*lls**t. A 6lbs steel frame isn't any different in terms of comfort to a stiff aluminium frame. They're probably just running there tyres softer than usual.

 ;D he's probably right
Glad I'm not the only one that can't tell the difference between a steel and alu hardtail....

Ok, sorry - I worded that horribly. Yes, steel as a material is stiffer but the actual material properties are rarely the thing that regulate stiffness, tube profile makes considerably bigger difference. I would assume that it's the higher strength of steel and better fatigue characteristics that allow frames to be made with a small cross section with steel, as you just don't seem to see skinny tubed alu hardtails. But either way, steel frames are made with skinny tubes where alu ones aren't, meaning they're a little more compliant for the same frame strength.

I wouldn't say that it's a placebo effect. Tyre pressures will make a difference yes, but after riding my old alu hardtail (and friend's alu hardtails) and my summer season with pretty much the same pressures I would say that I notice a difference between them. It's not massive, but it does feel a little duller over sharp impacts, and a slightly different feel to reducing tyre pressure.
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faceplanter

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Re: Cotic Rocket!
« Reply #24 on: Feb 20, 2012, 22:38 »
There are loads of decent aluminium framed AM bikes out there, what is the benefit of a heavier steel one, surely everyone is trying to create lighter bikes right now.
Medium frame will be circa 7.5lbs - not heavy at all then..!
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[Al]

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Re: Cotic Rocket!
« Reply #25 on: Feb 21, 2012, 11:50 »
They come in 19.3", which is pretty big, how big do you need it?
Bigger. An inch on the seat tube, 3/4 or so in the top tube and a degree or so steeper on the seat tube would be a start. I am not a "normal" shape ;)
Ride fast, take chances. Just don't blame me when you fall off.

themolland8

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Re: Cotic Rocket!
« Reply #26 on: Feb 21, 2012, 12:21 »
Cy Turner from Cotic spoke at Uni last year, doing a guest lecture, and spoke about a  prototype they had build in 953 steel. They found it was so hard to extrude, that it lead to frames that were just too flexible.  Just watched the videos, guess he spoke about it in Q+A afterwards

cycotic

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Re: Cotic Rocket!
« Reply #27 on: Feb 21, 2012, 13:07 »
Now then chaps. Thanks for the comments guys, glad some of you are liking the bike.

This has been covered pretty well by a couple of the guys, but the steel front end came about because the seat tube we use is 35mm (same diameter as most aluminium seat tubes), so the fact that steel itself is stiffer than alu and the diameter wasn't helping the aluminium because they're roughly the same size (same dia, thinner wall on the steel), the steel seat tube is way stiffer than the aluminium one we used on the Hemlock. It's a little heavier, but way stiffer, so that allowed me to tie the back end really tightly to the front (both pivots on the seat tube are 15mm through axles). When you need the frame to be strong for an application like this, there's not a deal in it compared to aluminium because the 853 is so damn strong you don't need to use that much to get great durability. You need to use a LOT of aluminium to match that strength, so the weight goes up. I wrote a load about this and other things about the bike earlier in the year and it's all in the Development History on the Rocket product page on the Cotic website.

Weight-wise, it's in the game I think. Similar to an SB-66a, 5 Spot, SC Butcher/Nickel, Covert, touch more than a Five or a Remedy.

If you have any specific questions, drop me a line or post up here and I'll try and get to them ASAP.

Oh, someone mentioned demos - We're doing Peak District demos from our base in Calver on 14th April, 12th May and 9th June. We'll also be at Rd3 of the Gravity Enduro at Hamsterley and the Fort William Endurance DH in July.

Re the Hemlock comments - we did have some trouble with the middle iteration of that frame, but the first and final ones were fine, and as mentioned they regularly get a firm thrashing from happy owners. We've always sorted any trouble we've been made aware of immediately with replacement latest parts (all Hemlock parts from 09 onwards are interchangeable), and we've stocked up on pivot kits, mech hangers and assorted other parts to make sure all warranties and maintenance can be honoured for the foreseeable future. Just because we don't make the frame anymore doesn't mean we leave our customers behind.

[Trail_Rat]

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Re: Cotic Rocket!
« Reply #28 on: Feb 21, 2012, 13:14 »
Fort William Endurance DH in July.

may see you there then for a gander ..... my mate was looking for a spanner to come along and see him right.

Be interested to see this - was just showing my cyclist boss a photo of my bikes and his first comment was - no FS ? when reality is im looking for something like a five but not a five and not being satisfied with whats currently there.

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Speeder

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Re: Cotic Rocket!
« Reply #29 on: Feb 21, 2012, 13:25 »
There are loads of decent aluminium framed AM bikes out there, what is the benefit of a heavier steel one, surely everyone is trying to create lighter bikes right now.
Medium frame will be circa 7.5lbs - not heavy at all then..!

It's certainly in the ballpark for a 150mm enduro style frame that's not made of pencils & plastic.  For comparison an Ibis HD160 is 6.5lb and it's about double the price.


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